Who’s advocating for Minnesota?

To the editor:

In response to the guest columnist, Minnesota Chamber of Commerce President, David C. Olson, I was surprised to read such a blatant call to businesses to move to Wisconsin or Florida.

Is this how the president of the Minnesota Chamber should spend his time and powers? Shilling for the anti-tax “job-creators” (still waiting for the jobs, by the way) instead of cheer leading for the state to actually attract businesses?

Is it part of his job description to denigrate the state for which he is supposed to increase business by pointing out the other states where taxes are lower?

Our quality of life and life expectancy is proof that extra cost pays off in the long run. But investors aren’t interested in the long run, just the quick profit.

Todd Laumer

  • Jan Dobson

    Taxes are a cost of doing business just like raw materials, shipping and labor are costs of doing business. It’s unrealistic and unreasonable to expect an entrepreneur to pay more to do business in Minnesota just so he can have the privilege of improving life expectancy and quality of life for Minnesotans.

    • Paul Hoffinger

      How about improving his bottom line with better-educated, more productive workers? Could that make it worthwhile for him?

      • Rosie from Rosemount

        How about actually firing teachers who can’t do their job and turning our schools into places where students receive an education and not an environment to administer social services? Other than fraud, stealing, sex abuse of students or some other felony, when was the last time you heard of a teacher being fired for incompetency? Do the teachers’ unions think the public is so dumb that we believe every single teacher is doing at least an adequate job, ergo no teacher need to be fired for incompetence? Ever? Do we really believe throwing more money at a broken system will fix the system and that money not reforms is what is needed?

  • taxpayer28

    Hey Tad, reality sucks and elections matter. good luck trying to defend your looting Democrat party when all the producers shrug.

    • resident

      Short memory Taxpayer28! – The responsible “live within your means” Republicans looted the tobacco settlement fund and the Washington stimulus fund and cheated on the obligation to finance Minnesota education.
      Yea – keep them smoking so we can get more cigarette taxes. Who needs stimulus to develop jobs, – Republicans gave us the voter ID and marriage amendment instead and don’t educate, – educated folks vote DFL.

      • taxpayer28

        Why do you think the Repub’s did so bad the last election? If they don’t do as they say they will do, we won’t support them. Take Pat Garafalo, we need to run a real Republican next election. Pat supports his cronies at Winter Park over the taxpayers of Minnesota.
        He supports increased spending to Education even though they continue to fail mightily.
        He won’t try to cut spending to health and human services even though we all know the fraud running through it. Just the stream of Chicago “needy” coming to Minnesota alone is enough to realize it needs to stop.

        • taxpayer28

          When republicans run strong constitution leaning candidates the press either ignores them or skews the reporting in favor of democrats. If republicans run blue blood country club types like Garafalo and Kline the grass roots voter is forced into hold your nose and vote for the lesser of two evils.

  • Resident

    Rosie from Rosemount you are still as “arrogant” as ever! – Before you dump an others you should first walk a year in their shoes!
    And Jan D. You started with a logical though: “Taxes are a cost of doing business just like raw materials, shipping and labor are costs of doing business.” OK, – But due you know what happen if you don’t spend money on materials, shipping or labor !!! Samething, if you don’t spend money on taxes. – Has it accrued to you that we are actually buying something with our tax money and it dose not make some one like the King of England rich any more.
    I think what bugs the “Conservatives” folks is that if we buy something using taxes then their capitalist friends are out of profit, bonuses, executive pay, …..and are no longer able to leach on the rest of us.

    • Rosie from Rosemount


      As I have said many times on these boards, I taught in a local school district for many years prior to being a stay-at-home mom and now run my own firm. I have more than walked in those shoes and I know first hand what the education situation is and is not.

      Do you not find it amazing that in every other profession or career, people are fired for incompetency, laziness or inability to perform, but when was the last time you ever heard of a teacher being fired for any of those reasons? Are all teachers so good that all perform perfectly and none never need to be replaced?

      I have much to say about the education system in Minnesota, feel free to ask me anything, and I will give you the best possible answer if I know it.

  • Jan Dobson

    Resident. Could you explain specifically how Capitalists are “leaching on” you?

  • Jan Dobson

    Bill Maher, celeb darling of the Liberal left, recently threatened to leave California because of unreasonably high taxes in that state. I reckon Minnesota won’t be his first choice for relocation.

    • wageslave

      Maybe not.

      I do not understand the House DFL’s proposal to levy a 1 percent upper-end surcharge (on top of Dayton’s upper-income tax hike) to pay back the school shift.

      The school shift is bad (uncourageous) bookkeeping, but in itself is not damaging the schools right now. It can be argued that 12 years of Republican-imposed austerity have damaged the schools. But let’s not blame the school shift for that.

      Speaker Thissen, I presume, knows he can’t get the surcharge AND Dayton’s fourth tier. I honestly don’t know what he’s thinking. There’s a calculus there I don’t understand. But he’s obviously playing for session’s end.

      Taxes will go up by session’s end. Business-to-business taxes are vanquished, but some sales tax increases may remain on the table. It depends on negotiations. And upper-income tax increases seem to be a certainty. Probably tobacco (and maybe liquor) taxes, too.

      Hey — elections have consequences. They just do.

      Returning to the topic of high-end income taxes, I like Senate Majority Leader Tom Bakk’s statement that it’s not good to be in the top five states in ANY tax category. Thus, his opposition to the House proposal.

      Minnesota’s economy, broadly, is doing very well. Tax policy will not sink it;

      • Jan Dobson

        But will tax policy shrink MN’s economy and/or keep it from growing?

        • wageslave

          Tax policy SHRINK economic growth in Minnesota, or neutralize it? Not this year.

          What is it about momentum and a far lower (and shrinking) unemployment rate than the rest of the nation that you don’t understand?

          Nothing that will emerge from this legislative session will “shrink” and/or “keep” Minnesota’s economy from growing. There’s too much momentum, particularly in the important housing sector. Economies grow, you know, and they’re hard to stop from growing until they don’t.

          Property taxes rose a lot in real terms during the Republican decade, but state taxes (aside from cigs) didn’t. Should we blame property tax growth for our sluggish economic performance in Minnesota, even as Pawlenty contained state taxes?

          Choose your poison. Every party does. But the Republicans are the ones who insist on tax policy as the DETERMINANT factor in economic performance.

          It doesn’t hold up.

          • Jan Dobson

            MN’s unemployment rose in January 2013.

  • Paul Hoffinger

    Schools not accomplishing all we’d like? School budgets flat or cut over the last decade? Wealthy folks consistently pay a smaller percentage of their income in taxes than the rest of us, according to the State Department of Revenue? Coincidence?

    • taxpayer28

      I’ m sorry but the facts are the facts. School budgets are not flat in the state funding side, never have been. They have had increased budgets from the state ever since Wendell Anderson’s “Minnesota miracle”
      Local funding has been problematic due to tax base fluctuations. When so much of the local property taxes used to fund schools comes from businesses, you had better hope those businesses don’t shut down or else you will run a short fall.
      The facts are teachers have received salary increases through steps and latters. They have received generous benefit packages as well.
      They have had the standards dumbed down to hide the poor performance of the students. (Look at the 8th grade requirements from the early 1900’s and compare them to today’s minimum requirements.
      When failure is subsidized you will get more of it. That is the reality.

  • Jan Dobson

    Resident: Could you please give a speicific example of how Capitalists “leach on” you?

    • resident

      Come on Jan D. if you can’t see it yourself – I can’t make you. – Don’t waste my time.
      Jan, – think about this: Who pays more in taxes? GM in the US (0%) or Mercedes Benz in Germany (15, 20, 30%?)? Who is more competitive and successful? Not GM! Who was bailed out and leached our tax money?
      And don’t tell me the stupid line “Germany is a communist or socialist country”. What they have is all those “burdensome regulations” which keep pollution down, keep drugs and hamburger safe, prevent the housing bubble, closes tax loop holes……. They are trying to prevent all the capitalistic free enterprise rip-offs we US taxpayers end up having to pay for.
      They buy with their tax money up to date efficient transportation and infrastructure, free healthcare, free education, social security and then have some left over to bail out Greece which was ruined by the law abiding, job creating, tax evading capitalists. They have all the “Freedom” to travel unobstructed through 15 countries, buy there what they like, marry who they like and even smoke pot if they like it.
      Then rather then learning something and using it to make our country better your approach is to start name-calling and telling us to move to an “East European” place you suppose we like so much.

      • Jan Dobson

        Resident: Is it possible to offer an estimate of about how much Capitalists that “leach on” you have stolen from you personally? Also, if you work for a living, do you think your employer is a Capitalist? Do you think he/she is leaching on you? Or, do you feel that you are leaching by selling him/her your time to make a profit for yourself?

        I realize these questions are quite personal. Whether you answer them or not is, of course, your prerogative. I’m just genuinely curious about how your line of thinking works. It varies profoundly from my line of thinking.

        BTW, reports I’ve seen suggest that Greeks blame selfishness in Germany for Greece’s dire economic condition. That is, Greeks expect Germans to spread the wealth around, to bail Greece out. Any thoughts on that?

        • resident

          Jan, – more then $¼ million was leached from me personally and would you like to know the name of the capitalist predator? Plus what they cost all of us, – by the acid rain, oil spills, smoking addictions, pollution, tainted water and food, unsafe working condition, manipulation of gas prices, the housing crisis -and on- and on- and on – all done for big profit by unregulated free enterprise capitalist criminals.
          About employers and businesses. I think Walmart is a capitalistic leach, – at the expense of all of us a few top dogs get filthy rich. And we end up subsidizing their greed with welfare payments for their underpaid workers and the food self and have to make up for the missing tax revenues.
          It doesn’t have to be that way. Look at Costco for comparison. The employees get living wages and pay taxes, the consumers get good deals, the suppliers are happy and the company is profitable and thriving.
          Profiteering dose not work, – ultimately the predators just run out of prey. This is why our country is going down the drain and others are getting ahead.
          So why are you advocating for predatory capitalism, leaching, tax evasion? Due you get something out of it? If you are not on the take then you are sure shooting yourself in the foot.

          • RollieB

            Nailed it, residence! Nice…

          • Jan Dobson


            Your comment is a little hard to follow. I’m not certain, but it sounds like you are saying that Walmart stole over US$250,000 from you personally. Is that your claim? If that is your claim and if your claim is true, surely Walmart has committed a prosecutable crime. Surely you can very easily make a case for reimbursement/compensation and present it to the courts.

            Have I interpreted your words correctly?

          • Rosie from Rosemount


            In all but a few exceptional situations, why does it make sense to pay more than minimum wage for someone to stock Tampax onto a shelf at a retail store? Why would someone be paid more than minimum wage for running a cash register and bagging groceries?

            The 40 hour workweek is without meaning if you have no skills, training or education. When I put myself through school, I worked as many hours as I could at various places and loved to get overtime. I do not think that the poverty level should be at a level which measures one wage earner in one household of 4 people working only 40 hours per week. As my own employer today, I certaininly work more than 40 hours without complaint (except I am taxed twice on my earnings), and most individuals in similar situations and those in management positions at many companies do the same. There is a problem in this country when people without skill demand the same wages as those who are skilled. Such “equalization” trims the desire for self-improvement. Why bother to obtain a skill if the pay is the same as an unskilled position? As far as capitalism, there is currently a strike which has been going on for 2 months involving refuelers at a major airline. In order to keep the airline running, a mojor holder of the the airline’s stock demanded that the airline hire replacement workers. The stock owner runs a retirmentet fund, and without the cash flow from an ongoing concern, it cannot pay the retirees who worked for these benefits. Oh, the retirment fund is a union-sponsored, union-controlled and union-owned fund that pays benefits to retired union members. Something for you to think about when you bad-mouth businesses. BTW, refueling a plane is not too different than filling your own car with gas, it is just a different pump and takes longer. The pay is $12/hr and the striking union members want $18/hr. It looks like they will never get it, in part due to the actions of the union which holds and invests in the retirement fund that invests in the airline. Economics 101 is a hard reality Resident.

  • TheLip

    JD, why do you not answer Resident’s questions?
    So why are you advocating for predatory capitalism, leaching tax evasion?
    Due you get something out of it?

    • Jan Dobson

      Asking questions and seeking clarification is advocating? Good to know. Could you please define “predatory capitalism” and “leaching tax evasion.”

      • resident

        Jan, – nowhere did I say Walmart stole $250,000 from me. According to Flesch-Kincaid the comments are at the level of 8 grate readers. So what is you problem? You are just trying to evade the question and divert attention!- Again,-So why are you advocating for predatory capitalism, leaching tax evasion?

        • Jan Dobson

          1) As I said, Resident, your comment was a little hard to follow. So, if it’s not Walmart, would you care to name the culprit that stole from you?

          2) Once again, I’ll request a definition of “predatory capitalism” and “leaching tax evasion.” It’s hard to discuss an issue without defining terms. I know that about half of Americans pay no Federal taxes at all. Are you referring to them as leaching tax evaders?

          • resident

            Why are you advocating for predatory capitalism, leaching tax evasion?

            Answer the questions

          • Patrick in Burnsville

            I second the request for defining “predatory capitalism” and “leaching tax evasion.” How can Jan answer the question intelligently if you don’t provide definitions for the concepts you accuse them of advocating?

            I can accuse everyone on this thread of advocating asdf jkl; but if I don’t define what that is, no one can confirm or deny. We can make assumptions of what “predatory capitalism” and “leaching tax evasion” are, but no two people’s thoughts on what they are will be the same.

            So how about providing enough information so Jan can answer the question? Jan even used the magic word, “please” when asking for the definition…

  • RollieB

    For the sake of this fascinating discussion I’ll offer this; Predatory Capitalism is generally regarded as unregulated, profit above everything, corporations.

    They are identified by these 5 attributes (there are probably more):

    1. DO NOT PAY TAXES -In order to maximize profits, they always seek to avoid or minimize their taxes.
    2. ELIMINATE COMPETION -In order to maximize profits, they always seek to eliminate or control their competition.
    3. CUT WAGES AND SALARIES – In order to maximize profits, they always seek to reduce their labor costs.
    4. DISREGARD THE ENVIRONMENT – In order to maximize profits, they always seek to avoid all environmental restraints.
    5. SELL DANGEROUS, HARMFUL PRODUCTS – In order to maximize profits, they are tempted to sell dangerous or harmful products.

    • Jan Dobson

      1. In order to maximize profits, ALL successful corporations seek to LEGALLY control their taxes.
      2. In order to maximize profits, ALL successful corporations seek to control the impact of their competition.
      3. In order to maximize profits, ALL successful corporations seek to control their labor costs.
      4. In order to stay in business, ALL corporations must operate within EPA constraints.
      5. In order to stay in business, NO corporation can give into a “temptation” to covertly and willingly sell dangerous or harmful products. (BTW, experiencing “temptation” isn’t the same as performing illegal or immoral action.)
      The whole point of a corporation is to, in one way or another, make a profit.

  • Jan Dobson

    1. Inflammatory terms being thrown about in this discussion—“predatory Capitalism” and “leaching tax evasion”— are obviously invented. Neither appears in my dictionary.

    2. The “definition” offered for “predatory Capitalism” is utterly ridiculous. In order to buy into that definition, one must first buy into the notion that corporate profit is a bad thing. Corporate profit is a GREAT thing. Corporate profit means jobs. Corporate profit means options for consumers. Corporate profit means a healthy, growing economy.

    3. Regarding “leaching tax evasion,” my initial interpretation of the term was that it might refer to the fifty percent, give or take, citizens that pay no federal taxes. Since no other definition has been offered, I guess my supposition was correct.

    In my opinion, both terms are concocted for the purpose of advancing a radical anti-Capitalist agenda that has no base in reality. Buying into an anti-Capitalist agenda doesn’t follow reason, historical data or logic. Parroting talking point rhetoric is the only way—short of physical coercion—that such a conniving agenda can be supported.

    • TheLip

      Corporate profits are at an historical high, where are the jobs. Employee pay is not keeping up with the high profits. Where are those profits going, share holds is one area I can think of and that is a good thing. Where are the balance of those high profits going? Looks like the the workers on the front lines producing those high proftits are not enjoying the fruits of their labor.

      • Rosie from Rosemount


        Maybe the employees need to take a risk and invest in owning the ahares of the companies who you say are making record profits. Or, why not negotiate a contract that pays a base wage of minimum wage, but everyone gets a percentage of the profit? I pay my employees based upon profitability, so everyone works hard to get paid more, everyone shares the risk, and those who do not carry their weight are pushed by those who work hard. It is a great system. As to the location of corporate profits, they go to the place where they belong: Into the hands of those who took a risk and invested, conceptualized, invented and created.

        • TheLip

          RFR, you as an owner are the exception to the rule and good for you. It is not I that is saying that corporate profit is at an all time high, the internets is full of others who say that. So the former CEO of Supervalu who worked for 7 months to sheperd the recent sale and walked off with $10 plus million took a risk, what might have been the risk he took? Maybe we could ask the 600 works who got pink slips this past week, maybe they can tell us the risk he took. How about the wall street gang who with our tax money is handing out some very nice bonuses. There are exceptions to everything but I just find it interesting that to some on this board corporations can do no wrong. Work hard, do your job and contibute to the profitability of a company does not always payoff in this day and age.

    • AV Tax Payer

      Predatory Capitalism results when companies profit-making policies go unchecked by government regulations that serve to protect citizens from harmful money-making strategies. The lending practices that led to the economic crisis in 2008 is an example of Predatory Capitalism.

      Why isn’t the anger of laizzez-faire Tea Party members and other “hands-off” conservatives aimed at these corporations instead of just the government? Why is their culpability being dismissed and ignored? And, most importantly, if we can’t count on the government to protect its citizens from these practices, who can we count on?

      • Jan Dobson

        Please specify by name a corporation that is engaged in what you call predatory Capitalism.

        • TheLip


          • Jan Dobson

            We’ve got a couple of different definitions of so-called “predatory Capitalism” going, TheLip. Could you briefly cite specific documentable instances of how AIG fits both definitions? (Your own words would be appreciated more than a lengthy cut-and-paste reply. Links to your information sources would be nice, though.) Thanks much.

      • AV Taxpayer

        JD, Can you offer any answers to the 3 questions in the 2nd paragraph of my post?

        AIG is a good place to start, as TheLip has suggested.

    • wageslave

      I love corporate profits, too, in my retirement accounts.

      I wish these profits were creating more jobs in the U.S. Why aren’t they?

      Unions, probably. Shucks! Or could it be more opportunities overseas, where profits can also be parked without being subject to U.S. taxes?

      If you want to repeal federal tax credits for working families that are barely making it, then go for it. Call Kline and Thompson. Get pissed off!

      Oh, and reassure yourself that anyone who even marginally disagrees with you is “radically anti-capitalist.”

      That rhetoric is just amazing, Jan. But it’s stupid. I don’t know anyone who is “anti-capitalist.”

      You must, though.

      • Jan Dobson

        It’s stupid?

  • TheLIp

    JD, I cannot wait for your defense of these outstanding companies and CEOs. Why would I do your homework for you, go to the internets and on the Google and look them up yourself.

    AIG CEO J. Cassano 2008 bonus 34M TARP money 69.8M additional monies 112B

    CITI CEO R. Rubin 1999-2008 haul 124M TARP money 45B paid back 20B additional bail out 328.7B

    JP Morgan Chase 2008 haul 19.7M 2005-2007 haul 95.7M TARP 25B paid back additional monies 73.1B

    BOA CEO K. Lewis 2008 haul 10M 2001-2008 haul 145M TARP 45B paid back additional monies 18.1B

    Goldman Sachs CEO L. Blankfein 2008 haul 42.9M 2006-2007 haul 114.4M TARP 10B paid back additional monies 43.4B

    Please no regurgitated right side of the fence talking points if you would. I am sure all of these fine gentleman took a risk and earned every cent of their pay.
    Thanks and enjoy the day.

  • Jan Dobson

    TheLip: Thanks for providing examples. Before I investigate further, I’d like to be clear on exactly with what you are charging them. Are you saying they committed illegal acts?

    AV Tax Payer:

    Regarding three your questions

    1. I don’t recall any Tea Party endorsements of corporations that acted illegally. If you know of some, do tell.
    2. See number 1.
    3. You seem to be attacking government for being incompetent when it comes to protecting citizens. I’m not sure what point you are trying to make.

    • TheLip

      JD, i guess with your continued nonsense we will need to agree to disagree on this subject. I do not believe that all corporations are fantastic and do no harm. You can believe what you want and we can leave it at that. Illegal acts, go to the internets and on the Google and find out yourself. If you think taking taxpayers money and than paying nice salaries and bonuses is OK than so be it, I do not. Enjoy the day, temps sound like they will be maybe in the high 40’s.

    • AV Taxpayer

      What TheLip said. Blue sky awaits, (at least the sky is blue in my world) enjoy this beautiful spring day.

  • Jan Dobson

    Hey, TheLip and AV Taxpayer. Thanks for the happy springtime wishes. Right back at you both.

    I agree. We surely do disagree. There can be no denying that. And even though you refer to my commentary as “continued nonsense,” I remain sincerely interested in discovering the core kernel of our disagreement. Tossing personal insults, talking points and hot button words back and forth will never reveal it.

    • TheLip

      JD, no personal insults were intended on my part, sorry if you took anything I sent that way, that gets up no where. Now, if anyone does not mind me telling anyone what to do but….. everyone should get outside and enjoy the day.

  • Resident

    OK folks, – Now you have seen it. “Who’s advocating for Minnesota?” – Who’s advocating for our country? Who’s advocating for you and me? Or the same question inverse. Why are you advocating for predatory capitalism, leaching, tax evasion? Who get something out of it?

    1) Don’t answer the question, confuse and obstruct it with other question.
    2) Read something different into any answer.
    3) Play dumb.
    4) Play cute.
    5) Change the subject
    6) Drag it out.
    7) Plead a)“ There is no problem” b) “The dumb lazy victim are really the guilty culprit” c) The criminals are innocent law-abiding job creators. d) Being screwed is good for us. e) How can we be so unpatriotic to point fingers and ask questions.

    We all watched it. — Good job Jan and Rosie, after this I won’t ask what YOU get out of it.

    However there are still a few problems for all of us:
    Why are we all getting poorer but a few are getting filthy rich?
    Why is our country falling behind?
    Why do we get poisoned hamburger meat?
    Why do we need military bases all over the world and have to spend so much on defense?
    Why is Mercedes Benz or BMW with their big tax burden at home more successful then GM paying no taxes plus getting bailout help from our taxes?
    Why is the EURO $1.28 today? – It started at $0.84.
    Why is the stock market booming but unemployment is high?

  • Rosie from Rosemount


    Your list is noted. As I assume you want the list applied to everyone including yourself,and aqs such I stand ready to read your responses to my questions directed at you on Apr. 1 (see post above.) Also, your narrative tends to expose other issues within your own post, and I am sure you don’t want to play a double-standard.

    I have to tell you, I have commented on GM and even BMW on these boards in the past. I applaud the way Germany handles its education system (per my previous post relating to this subject as it was germane to BMW, where I specifically cited BMW with regard to the economy and education). I will argue that Mrs. Merkle is the only leader left in the world today who is from a major counrty and is for democracy and capitalism. The way the bailout of GM and other companies was handled by the federal government was an insult to The Republic, shmeful to democracy in general and to real capitalism. Again, I have stated this before.

    One reason the middle class is struggling is that they are overtaxed. This does not necessarily mean others are undertaxed, which may or may not be the case, but clearly, the middle class is getting killed with various taxes, regulations and expensive requirements. I can tell you that the government seems to be getting the richest of all, having a budget of more than 4 times what it was just 15 years ago. I wish my family had such a luxury.

    You cite many issues, and I will not address all of them, but I assume you understand that a strong Euro means US goods and services are cheaper, ergo those in the Eurozone may choose US products and services creating employment in the US. Further, despite the relatively high valuation of the Euro, this does not really mean the Eurozone is economically healthier than the US. As far as military bases all over the world, I am much more in favor of closing most of these bases and saving money by building up our naval and carrier fleet to defend ourselves.

  • Jan Dobson


    At the risk of repeating myself—repeatedly—your comments are a little hard to follow. I’m not really sure which question or questions you feel I have avoided answering, but I’m guessing that perhaps it/they may be contained in the following:

    “So why are you advocating for predatory capitalism, leaching, tax evasion? Due you get something out of it? If you are not on the take then you are sure shooting yourself in the foot.”

    Regarding your question, “So why are you advocating for predatory capitalism, leaching, tax evasion?”

    1. Once again, I don’t even recognize “predatory Capitalism” and “leaching tax evasion” as legitimate terms of debate. They are nothing more than inflammatory talking point buzz phrases. Two somewhat conflicting definitions were offered for “predatory Capitalism.” Neither stands up to analysis. No definition at all was offered for “leaching tax evasion.” I can only infer that my assumption of your meaning—that when you say leaching tax evasion you are referring to the fifty, or so, percent of Americans that pay no federal taxes—is correct. If you want to have an actual discussion, you’re going to have to come up with some actual definitions for your terms. (For the record, I disagree. I DO NOT define all Americans that pay zero federal taxes as tax evading leaches.)

    2. I am challenging the terms “predatory Capitalism” and “leaching tax evasion” because, as yet, they remain meaningless. For some reason, you continue to assert that my questioning the meaning of those examples of bunkum is the same as “advocating” for them. That assertion flat out doesn’t make any sense. And it is untrue, no matter how many times you repeat it.

    You add, “Due you get something out of it? If you are not on the take then you are sure shooting yourself in the foot.”

    1. I do get something out of challenging meaningless invented terms like “predatory Capitalism” and “leaching tax evasion.” Namely, I get the satisfaction of pointing out that they are contrived talking point fodder designed for mindless parroting and to evoke undefinable emotional responses.

    2. When you suggest that I may be “on the take,” I assume you are suggesting that someone is paying me to post comments in this little neighborhood thread. Nope. I’d love to be able to make money by posting truthful commentary but, so far, there have been no offers.

    3. Your “shooting yourself in the foot” comment makes no sense at all to me.

  • Rosie from Rosemount

    Resident, et al:

    Will you reply to my questions or are you just playing the same old games of supporting your argument using rage against opponents instead of using facts? Facts can be like lamp posts: A drunk uses a lamp post to lean against for support, but a sober individual uses the lamp post for illumination. By not answering you are not only classifying yourself in the same way you have classified your opponents, but you bring into question your sobriety, ergo whether you wish to seriously debate anything at all. Your lack of response is a deafening silence and can only be taken one way.

    • Jan Dobson

      Hey, Rosie. Thanks for the lamppost analogy. I got a kick out of it. Brings to mind a few lines from one of the funniest movies ever made, “It’s a Gift” starring W.C. Fields. Accused of being drunk, Fields quips back to his accuser,

      “I may be drunk, but you’re crazy. Tomorrow I’ll be sober. You’ll be crazy for the rest of your life.”

      Another great one from W.C.:

      “If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull.”

      Both quotes so often apply to these threads!

  • Rosie from Rosemount

    Yes, analogies can be a lot of fun.

    I was hoping to go home and garden a bit, at least get the beds in order, but as I look out my office window, it is snowing. Ugh!

    All the best to you, Jan.